Interview #18: Hot Springs, SD City Administrator Nolan Schroeder (with podcast)

This podcast interview is available on iTunesStitcherPlayer FM and right here:

Nolan Schroeder is demographically a bit different from other city managers. We talked about college, ethics, and council meeting start times–among other things.

Q: I reviewed a Hot Springs city council meeting last month. How accurately did I capture the aura of that meeting?

A: I would say the accuracy was spot-on.

Q: Yeah, it was!

A: It brought a smile to my face to say the least.

Q: Can you describe what the city council meeting room looks like?

A: We used to meet in this kind of hallway environment. It was about a year ago we switched over to a theater. It seats 400 and thankfully we have not reached capacity yet.

Q: Have you ever had a drama teacher walk in and be like, “we’ve got a rehearsal for ‘The Music Man’ in ten minutes! Everybody out!”

A: We just consider those “communications from the public.”

Q: I’m assuming you became city administrator of Hot Springs after working a couple of desk jobs…you took a year off of college to backpack through Europe…you worked retail for a bit. Then five or six years later you got this job, right?

A: [Laughs] I finished grad school in 2014 and started literally weeks after I finished school.

Q: What?! This was your first job out of college?

A: I’m 26 years old. This is my first job out of school.

Q: Oh, my god.

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Hot Springs, SD City Administrator Nolan Schroeder

Q: What have you done as city administrator?

A: We–don’t laugh when I tell these accomplishments–but we completed some audits. We were behind on those. We passed a new personnel policy. New safety policy. Our sales tax revenue has gone up since I’ve been here. I can’t say if that’s because of the work we’ve done–

Q: I’m not a journalist, so I can say it’s because of the work you’ve done.

A: [Laughs]

Q: One thing I heard from another city manager is that when the public had a problem with the city and were criticizing staff at council meetings for not doing anything about it, he wished the city council would defend the staff.

A: We were able to pass a new code of ethics that states if you have direct criticism of an employee, you don’t just lash out or nod your head along in agreement if someone is lambasting a city employee.

Q: Is there anything the council members can do or have done that makes your life difficult?

A: Yes. They can not read their packets! We prepare council packets for them. I’ll do notes on each agenda item and give–at the very most–a four line summary of what the item is.

Q: You’re kind of a professor here. You have a lesson plan. You assign the reading….So can you tell when some people have done the reading, and some people are BS-ing their way through?

A: Yes! Part of my job is to read people. You can certainly tell who is prepared for the game and who is hoping somebody else answers for them.

Q: If you could change one thing about the Hot Springs city council meetings, what would it be?

A: The start time. It’s in our ordinance that we start at 7 p.m. People that work a full eight hours and have to go to the meeting…there’s some fatigue that sets in.

Interview #17: Former San Francisco, CA Board of Supervisors President David Chiu (with podcast)

This podcast interview is available on iTunesStitcherPlayer FM and right here:

David Chiu was president of San Francisco’s Board of Supervisors (their term for “city council”) from 2009-2014. If you know ANYTHING about San Francisco, it’s that things can get weird there. And believe me: Chiu has seen plenty of weirdness. Now a state assemblymember, he talked to me about nudists, F-bombs, and his out-of-body experience.

Q: Your Board of Supervisors has a famously unruly public comment period. What are some of the more quintessentially San Francisco moments that you remember?

A: Oh, yes. We had a debate about whether our residents could walk around naked. I remember when the vote didn’t go the way that the nudist activists wanted, they protested by disrobing in the chamber in front of the television. There are a number of individuals who are regular public commenters. We have Walter, who likes to sing. Another individual had a very Christian conservative message.

Q: In January 2009 when you got on the Board, on your very first day you were chosen as president. Had you ever been to a Board meeting before you got elected?

A: I had.

Q: And what about that meeting made you think, “I want one of the most aggravating jobs in San Francisco?”

A: [Laughs] At that time, San Francisco City Hall was pretty darn dysfunctional. We had elected officials who could not stand to be in the same room as each other, who would bicker through the press. And I thought we could do a better job of trying to bring folks together.

Q: When you walked up to the president’s chair, the first thing you said was, “this is unexpected.” Was it REALLY unexpected? When you left the house that morning, what odds were you giving yourself? Be honest.

A: Extremely low. At the exact moment when the clerk said I had the six votes to become president, I had one of those out-of-body experiences. It slowly dawned on me that someone had been elected Board president. And I then realized, “oh, my god. I think it might have been…me!”

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Former San Francisco Board of Supervisors President David Chiu

Q: Were there any supervisors who were consistently thorns in your side? And followup question, it was Chris Daly wasn’t it?

A: Well, he did threaten to haunt me for the rest of my political career and uttered a very famous phrase in San Francisco to me, saying, “it’s on like Donkey Kong.”

Q: …

A: [He] was famous in his last year for saying that he was going to drop an F-bomb in every meeting. After he said that, I decided to go and purchase a bar of soap which I very publicly gave to him.

Q: Nice. So now you are in California Assembly. Which has more comfortable chairs, the Board of Supervisors or the state Assembly?

A: I think the Board of Supervisors is actually a little more comfortable.

Q: So when you’re sitting in your objectively inferior Assembly chair–

A: I would say “older”…less ergonomically-fitted chair.

Q: –do you think, “I am so glad I don’t have to sit through another g–d– Board of Supervisors meeting?” Or are you thinking, “what I wouldn’t give to trade this for a Board meeting?”

A: [Laughs] It’s just a very different experience. Very different ambiance.


Follow Assemblymember David Chiu on Twitter: @DavidChiu

Interview #16: Homer, AK Mayor Beth Wythe (with podcast)

This podcast interview is available on iTunesStitcherPlayer FM and right here:

Beth Wythe has been mayor and city council member in Homer for eight years–and yesterday was actually her last day at city hall. I wanted to get her parting thoughts on everything from breaking tie votes to silencing talkative people…to salmon. Yes, salmon.

Q: Fill in the blank for me: if Homer city council meetings were an animal, they would be a ________.

A: [Laughs] I have to think about that because they can be anything.

Q: What is the hardest part about being in charge of a council meeting?

A: I don’t have a difficulty with it. I do have council members that really want their opinion to be the dominating opinion. And then you have other council members that are a little more withdrawn. And you want to draw them out.

Q: So if someone is monopolizing the discussion, how do you gently nudge them to give the other people some space to get in?

A: The rule of order is that you get to have your say and you get to have one response. You can’t just go back and forth. I will just say, “excuse me, this [other] person would like to have something to say.”

Q: When you were just a council member, were you more talkative or less talkative?

A: I just don’t like to argue in public. Even as the mayor I don’t try to make my opinion the stronger one.

Q: The mayor does not have a vote at city council meetings–

A: Only in the case of a tie.

Q: Right, which doesn’t happen often?

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Homer, AK Mayor Beth Wythe

A: More frequently than you might think. Where that can be frustrating for the community is that I’m a very conservative person. And so when it comes to me deciding, it’s, like, always going to fall on the conservative side of the table. It’s better for the community if there is good consensus with the council.

Q: So you prefer not casting a vote if it means everyone else is on the same page?

A: Right.

Q: That’s very self-sacrificing of you.

A: I think it’s not about me. When it becomes about “I need to have a vote” and “I need to have my voice heard”–when it becomes about the mayor, I think the mayor’s not doing their job.

Q: Does anyone get prone to hyperbole and threaten to walk out?

A: Right now, we don’t have anyone on the council that does not function in a professional capacity. It’s not like you have housewives–which wouldn’t be a bad thing–but it’s not like you have housewives or people that are not accustomed to conducting a business meeting.

Q: Mmhmm.

A: I’m still thinking about the animal thing. And I haven’t come up with one!

Q: Let’s try to come up with one together.

A: Think of something mellow. It’s not like the yippie dog that needs all the attention. We’re not that.

Q: Cats are fairly mellow. But they’re also sleepy and lazy and they can scratch you.

A: Yeah…

Q: Goldfish are mellow.

A: We are a fishing society. Maybe we’re salmon. There are lots of varieties and they’re highly valued. I’m going with salmon!

Interview #15: Rochester, NY Council Vice President Dana Miller (with podcast)

As usual, you  can listen to this podcast interview on iTunesStitcherPlayer FM or right here:

This is a fun one! Rochester city council Vice President Dana Miller filled me in on what kind of vice president he is (hint: not a Dan Quayle) and how there is fierce competition between the public commenters at council meetings.

Q: How is being the vice president of the Rochester city council similar to being vice president of the United States?

A: The jobs are similar in that the vice president of city council and the vice president of the United States serve as a backup for the president.

Q: Do you see yourself more as a Joe Biden or a Dick Cheney?

A: It’s interesting–I met Joe Biden. It turns out, we both have two sons, we were both married in 1977, we both have sisters named Valerie who worked on our campaigns. So I find myself having an affinity for Joe Biden and being there as a person who could step in for the president–and not necessarily be a shadowy figure who’s actually pulling the strings.

Q: “Shadowy figure?” Sir, are you telling me that you have never shot one of your friends in the face while bird hunting?

A: I can absolutely say with certainty that I have not shot any of my friends in the face while bird hunting.

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Rochester, NY Council Vice President Dana Miller

Q: Do you bring a different personality or energy to the meetings when you preside?

A: I would like to think so. We have a session before the council meeting starts called Speak to Council where people can talk about any topic they want. I like to ensure that people are knowing they are welcome to be there. I like to give them some eye contact.

Q: Mmhmm.

A: We have the A List, which are things that are going to be discussed that evening. And the B List, which is everything else. The A Listers get to go first. The B Listers tend to be people who come to every council meeting and they always have something to discuss. The B Listers kind of compete to see who is going to be the last speaker. That’s interesting to watch.

Q: For the other council members, are they behaving like their normal selves on camera, or are we seeing a different version of them?

A: One of the fears of the cameras was that people would be different. When I first joined council, I argued for the fact that we should broadcast the meeting. I was greeted with “over my dead body” by some people–all of whom are no longer on council.

Q: Wow.

A: There was a great fear that people would be playing to the cameras or going on long-winded diatribes just to get airtime. I’ve not really seen that.

Q: The Rochester City council has a newsletter. And the name of the newsletter…I want to pronounce this correctly…THE CITY COUNCIL CHRONICLE! Who do I have to talk to to get that named changed?!

A: I would encourage you to sign up for the B List and make your case. I’m sure we would listen intently.


Follow Councilman Dana Miller on Twitter: @dkmiller26

Interview #14: Bangor, ME Councilor Joe Baldacci (with podcast)

This is our second podcast interview which, as a reminder, is available on iTunesStitcher, and Player FM. You can also listen right here:

I talked to Bangor city councilor Joe Baldacci about city council dress codes, whether he preferred being mayor, and what it was like being 20 years younger than everyone else when first elected.

Q: You were elected to the Bangor city council in 1996. How were council meetings different in the 1990s than they are today? And feel free to quote Backstreet Boys lyrics in your answer.

A: [Laughs] They were not televised in the 1990s. They were more informal, I think you would say. Because they’re televised and recorded now, there’s always an assurance we’re making to make sure it’s fully transparent. That all things are discussed in public. Twenty years ago, I don’t think that same care was taken.

Q: What do you wear to city council meetings, and what do you think the dress code should be?

A: I think that on occasion, having buttoned-up short-sleeved shirts are fine. This is a part-time city council, we all have jobs outside of city council. Half the time I’m wearing a suit and tie, and half the time I’m maybe wearing a suit without tie or just a button-down shirt. It’s not overly formal.

Q: I always thought that in Maine, a short-sleeved buttoned-down shirt was the most formal you could be. Apparently, I was wrong. Okay, so you were mayor from 1998-1999. Which did you like better: being the mayor or a regular councilor?

A: Well, as a regular councilor you can be a little more, honestly, outspoken on issues. As the mayor, your focus really is trying to ensure consensus and stability.

Q: So it sounds like you’re just fine with being regular Joe Councilman? Literally, Joe Councilman.

A: The mayor doesn’t have any more votes than I do. It’s a ceremonial position more or less. It’s an honor. It’s all good. It’s just that as an individual councilor, you can push issues.

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Bangor, ME Councilor Joe Baldacci

Q: Your brother was also a Bangor city councilor who went on to be a congressman and governor of Maine. Is there any rivalry between the two of you where he says, “YOU’RE just a councilman. I was governor!” And you go “Yeah, you WERE. At least I’m still on the city council!”

A: [Laughs] No, John’s been very supportive.

Q: What advice did he give you when you were elected?

A: He told me to listen to the people that had been there many, many years. I was 31 and kind of a newbie. I think after me, everyone was in their 50s, 60s, or 70s.

Q: Wait, that’s a 20-year age gap. Did you feel any burden to prove you were mature enough to be on the council with these much older people?

A: Yes. Yeah, definitely. Especially the first year.

Q: If you caught some lobster and had a boil party at your house, who would you invite over to share it with?

A: Probably Councilor Perry…Councilor Graham…Councilor Faircloth…and–

Q: You can’t name all of them. You have to pick a favorite.

A: I like all of them equally!

Q: If I was talking to you in your first year, you would’ve picked a favorite. But you’re more diplomatic now.

A: Exactly.


Follow Councilor Joe Baldacci on Twitter: @JoeBaldacci

Interview #13: Anchorage, AK Assembly Chair Elvi Gray-Jackson (with podcast)

Big news! For the first time, you can now listen to a City Council Chronicles interview in podcast form. Follow this link to City Council Chronicles on iTunes or click play:

It’s a very special interview, in which we travel way, way up to Anchorage and talk to the chair of the city’s assembly, Elvi Gray-Jackson. She told me about the betting pool she runs on the council and how she cold-calls audience members for the Pledge of Allegiance.

Q: How many people usually show up to the assembly meetings? And because this is Alaska, how many grizzly bears show up?

A: How many grizzly bears? You mean rude people?

Q: I didn’t know that was the euphemism. I was talking about actual grizzly bears. Either one.

A: Literal bears, no. On average we have an audience of about 100, maybe 120. For every meeting I’ll estimate what time I think we’re gonna end the meeting. There’s about six of us–when I get to the meeting tonight I’ll say, “okay, what’s your guess?” We have fun trying to guess what time the meeting’s going to end. And somebody wins.

Q: You run a betting pool for the meeting end times?

A: It’s just for fun.

Q: Who usually wins?

PA: I win a lot. Lately, some of my colleagues are getting pretty good at it. I like to make the meetings lively and fun. What I do different than what any other chair has done–usually after roll call we do the Pledge of Allegiance. And every other chair usually asks one of our colleagues to lead us. What I decided I was gonna do is, every meeting I’m going to arbitrarily pick somebody in the audience to come up to the podium and lead us. I like to engage the public.

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Anchorage, AK Assembly Chair Elvi Gray-Jackson

Q: It’s Alaska, so I’m assuming people are allowed to bring guns to the assembly meetings?

A: That’s an interesting question…yes. People are allowed to bring guns.

Q: So how many guns do you have on your person while chairing the meetings?

A: I don’t have a gun. I’m terrified of guns. Dick Traini, who’s my vice chair now, when he was chair, he had the dais area bullet-proofed. And I was thankful for that.

Q: Are there some council members who are thorns in your side?

A: I’m a dolphin. Dolphins could kill sharks. Dolphins always have a dolphin expression on their face and the sharks are constantly doing things to try and change that personality. But the dolphins just maintain it and the sharks finally calm down. In that respect, there are human sharks. I don’t let people push my buttons.

Q: …That’s an analogy I have never heard from anyone else before.

A: And I have a dolphin tattoo on my left shoulder.

Q: Last September you missed an assembly meeting because you were introducing Michelle Obama at the White House. Looking back, do you regret not being there to vote on the contract for the reservoir mixer phase II upgrades?

A: Absolutely no, I don’t regret not being there. I was representing Anchorage. I plan my entire life around my assembly meetings because I don’t want to miss them. We have the opportunity to do the assembly meetings by phone. I HATE doing assembly meetings by phone because you get elected and you need to do your job.

City Council Chronicles on The Zach Bernard Show

This Fourth of July, City Council Chronicles creator Michael Karlik stopped by The Read-Optional Network’s Zach Bernard Show to talk about his favorite city councils (spoiler: all of them) and his preferred adult beverage while watching the meetings.

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