Category: interview

Interview #44: Mercer Island, WA City Manager Julie Underwood (with podcast)

This podcast interview is available on iTunes, Stitcher, Player FM, and right here:

Julie Underwood has worked in three cities in the past five years–so she’s noooooooo stranger to city council meetings! We talked about what happens when you bring your kids to a meeting, why she chose to sit far away from the mayor, and one pet peeve of hers.

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Q: When you got sworn in as Mercer Island city manager, your sons were standing there with you. Your youngest was seemingly doing a Spiderman impression while you were talking about upholding the Constitution…has your family been to any other council meetings?

A: They have not. I generally do not have them attend council meetings for obvious reasons–the Spiderman and the…oh, my gosh! Wanting to take the mic and wanting to get my attention when I need to focus on what’s happening with the council. Many of us are working parents. I’ve had to pick up my kids towards the end of the day and run back to the office where I’ve said, “sit in my office. I’ve got a meeting. Do your homework.”

Q: I noticed that for your first couple of Mercer Island meetings, you sat next to the mayor and other council members. But by the third meeting, you were not up there on the dais! Does Mayor Bruce Bassett smell bad?

A: [Laughs] No, he doesn’t smell bad. They’re the legislative branch. If I were just observing the council meeting, I wouldn’t know exactly what is this person doing up there? Those folks are all elected by the people and I’m appointed. I really wanted to understand, is there a reason city managers sat up there? Are [council members] really wedded to this idea? As it turned out, none of them were.

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Mercer Island, WA city manager Julie Underwood

Q: Are there things you have seen council members do or say in the meetings that you really wish they wouldn’t? What habits grind your gears?

A: I’m certainly sensitive when I might hear a council member use the term “my constituents.” Once you get elected, you work for all residents at that point. Every city I’ve worked for, every one of the elected positions were at-large [elected citywide]. So I just thought that was odd to say “my constituents.”

Q: Yeah, everyone has the same constituents. It might just be something they assume they have to say when they become a politician. It makes you sound like Ted Kennedy or something.

A: Maybe,  yeah.

Q: Have city council members ever surprised you by telling you behind closed doors that some project or idea is perfectly reasonable, but once they get in the council meeting, they slam it left and right?

A: Yeah, I’ve had council members tell me in private where they’re going and then on the dais do the opposite. That is their prerogative. There is a certain amount of uncertainty that is not fun. I’ve also seen where they see testimony in public comment and councils just go in a different direction based on that testimony. I will say this: when I do experience that, it gives me pause and I say, okay, this is a case where I do have to be okay with the uncertainty of a particular person. I just don’t know if what they’re saying is going to be what they do.

Follow City Manager Julie Underwood on Twitter: @UnderwoodJulie

Interview #29*: Miami, FL City Manager Daniel Alfonso (with podcast)

This podcast interview is available on iTunes, Stitcher, Player FM, and right here:

Daniel Alfonso is a longtime government employee and Army sergeant. But amazingly, he is also a survivor of Miami’s city commission meetings. What does that mean? Listen to the incredible story.

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Q: Is it a different experience being in the council meeting room–or is basically what you see on TV what it’s like in real life?

A: When I’m sitting on that dais, you actually see the faces of all the elected officials. You see the reactions. You see the public because your peripheral vision sees the entire room. When you’re looking at it on TV, you’re only capturing the images of the camera at that particular moment.

Q: Last April, I saw a wild thing at your city commission meeting: the commissioners tried to fire you! I know this is Florida and the threshold for something being shocking is fairly high…how shocked were you?

A: I was a little surprised but I wouldn’t say “shocked.” The meeting that took place that day was a difficult one. What led up to it was that I had terminated an employee who I believed had done something wrong. That employee had some ties to the community and there was a number of people that came out in support. I never [publicly] disclosed the reasoning for the termination because I didn’t need to add insult to injury.

Q: While this is going on, you are staring straight ahead. But behind you is this striking scene of two dozen city employees standing silently behind you. Did you notice what was going on with them?

A: Initially I did not. That day, [my wife] was watching that portion and she sent me a text. She just said to me, “why don’t you get up and come home?”

Q: Mmm.

A: I took a moment to look around and I realized that I had pretty much my entire senior staff–even the police union president–was standing next to me. And he’s a person we definitely have had differences with. I felt pretty good about that. So I responded to my wife, “look at all these people standing behind me. I can’t.”

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Miami, FL City Manager Daniel Alfonso

Q: At this point, the mayor comes into the room. He is not amused. Basically, he said, “if you fire Danny, I’ll veto it. If you override me, I’ll just hire him again.” Were you thinking, “god bless this man for sticking up for me?”

A: That was an incredible moment as well. The mayor really came out and supported the job I’ve been doing and supported me tremendously that day. I was actually impressed by how strongly he felt about keeping me for the rest of his term.

Q: At the end of this ordeal, Commissioner Ken Russell said, “this is your come-to-Jesus moment with the commission.” Danny, did you find Jesus in that commission meeting?

A: [Laughs] I’m a religious person and I found Jesus long before that day!

Q: Ha! Do you think that the commission handled this in the best way–in a public meeting?

A: That’s what we in our position expose ourself to. Would I prefer to have a private discussion with each commissioner individually? Yes. But this is the way our elected officials decided to have this discussion.

Follow City Manager Daniel Alfonso on Twitter: @DJA1968

*Due to a typo, there was not previously an interview 29. While this is technically our forty-third interview, we will number it 29 to get back on track.

Interview #43: Martinsville, VA Council Member Jennifer Bowles (with podcast)

This podcast interview is available on iTunes, Stitcher, Player FM, and right here:

Jennifer Bowles was 25 years old when she was simultaneously sworn in to the city council AND selected as vice mayor. But more impressively, she and I went to the same university! You’d better believe we talked about that.

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Q: Let’s see what University of Virginia traditions you have taken part in. Have you been inside the steam tunnels?

A: Yes, but I don’t actually remember. [Laughs] I was with friends!

Q: Uh…is it fair to say there was some partying beforehand?

A: Yes, there was.

Q: Mmm, okay. Have you run naked across the Lawn?

A: I have not.

Q: You would remember if you did THAT, right?

A: I’d have recalled!

Q: Have you broken into the janitor’s closet in the Rotunda and drank from the human skull inside?

A: No.

Q: Okay. I made that one up, but it sounds like it could be a real tradition! Now, in 2015 you had been on the city council for one month, you had been the vice mayor for one month–but in February, Mayor Danny Turner let you run a city council meeting! What is the trick to running a meeting?

A: A lot of people told me to just take my time. They jokingly said, “the lawyer would help you out with Robert’s Rules!”

Q: It helped that the actual mayor was sitting next to you the entire time.

A: Yeah and I will say, another member of council had previously been the mayor and he was to the left of me. And the mayor was to the right. So I had two individuals who had run the meeting before to help me out.

Q: Oh, my god. You were swimming in mayors! Can you think of anything strange or unusual that’s happened in your city council meetings since you’ve been there?

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Martinsville, VA Council Member Jennifer Bowles

A: The biggest thing is the mayor has removed someone from a council meeting–and they’re now a city council member.

Q: Let’s talk about that removal. In 2015, Chad Martin–who is now your vice mayor–asked the mayor for an apology in public comment. The mayor turned him down and someone with Mr. Martin yelled out “pathetic” and “moron.” What was all that about?

A: So there was an issue about how a mural should have been designed. The mural was on a predominantly African-American side of town. Mr. Martin wanted the mural to be by an African-American artist. There was a meeting between myself, the mayor, the city manager [and Martin]. After that conversation, there was some things said between the mayor and Mr. Martin that I’d rather not repeat. I don’t get frustrated. I’m willing to talk to anyone.

Q: Is it true that you stopped televising your council meetings for a while?

A: We stopped televising [public comment] because maybe people were nervous to be on the television who wouldn’t speak up because they knew they would be on TV. So we tried to make it more friendly to those individuals.

Q: So people stopped showing up?

A: Yes. There were some people who never showed up again.

Q: In my mind, those people were showing up because they WANTED to be on TV and get their message out there. 

A: That would be my assumption. They were expressing an opinion so everyone could be informed.

Follow Council Member Jennifer Bowles on Twitter: @ViceMayorBowles

Interview #42: Danville, VA Councilman Lee Vogler (with podcast)

This podcast interview is available on iTunes, Stitcher, Player FM, and right here:

Lee Vogler is the youngest councilman elected in Danville. We talk about his emphatic former mayor, what things are really like behind the cameras, and about one distressing council meeting in which he voted to take down a Confederate flag on city property.

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Q: Your city council has been on my radar since last year. What stood out to me was Mayor Sherman Saunders reading a proclamation for the Goodyear plant and really emphasizing the word “DANVILLE.”

A: He loves Danville. He loves to make sure there is no question about where he’s talking about!

Q: You are the youngest councilman in Danville. In the council meetings, do you have to explain to the older councilmen certain concepts like “twerking” and “selfies” and “Ariana Grande?”

A: Believe it or not, we’ve got a pretty cool city council. Our current mayor, John Gilstrap–there’s actually a video of him twerking on YouTube if you care to find it–

Q: I do not wish to see THAT, sir! (I’m kidding, I’ll look it up after we’re done.) There is a blog called SouthsideCentral and they released a report card that gave everyone on your city council a grade. It said of Mayor Saunders, “I don’t like the way he tries to keep all the real debate on the issues in the work sessions,” which are off camera. How accurate is this statement?

A: I don’t know if it’s so much a [matter of] cameras being on or off. It’s not more heated or anything in that sense. But it’s a little more informal. We’re all pretty comfortable around one another and we can say what we really feel about things and not offend anyone. These work sessions, they’re not behind closed doors. I’m on Facebook and Twitter and I’m pretty much an open book with how I feel. We’ve had some issues where, in the televised meetings, there’s been back and forth.

Q: If you had to name the one issue that really shook things up in Danville, what would that be?

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Danville, VA Councilman Lee Vogler

A: I hesitate to even bring this one up because it wasn’t an issue that stirred up local people as much as it was people from outside of Danville. But when the Confederate flag issue was going on, the chambers were packed.

Q: Yeah. Basically, the city owns the history museum and there was a Confederate flag on the pole. And the question was, should the city allow this? At the August 6, 2015 council meeting, every seat is filled. Some people are waving Confederate flags. Some have Confederate flag ties or t-shirts or patches. How did you feel looking out at that?

A: It was a surreal meeting. What you saw was a fraction of the people there. There was probably another hundred outside.

Q: Almost all of the arguments I heard from the pro-flag people were things such as, “it’s our heritage,” “get over it,” “if you get offended by a flag, you are inadequate,” etc. Frankly, a lot of what was said disturbed me. What kind of threats did you get?

A: There were folks who came by [my workplace] and said, “you need to think long and hard about how you vote on this.” I ran for reelection after that vote and I ended up being the top vote-getter. People have moved on.

Follow Councilman Lee Vogler on Twitter: @LeeVogler

Interview #41: Detroit, MI Council Member Raquel Castañeda-López (with podcast)

This podcast interview is available on iTunes, Stitcher, Player FM, and right here:

Raquel Castañeda-López grew up in Detroit and now she is on the city council, dealing with some truly vexing problems people bring to her: decay, violence, neglect. We talked about challenges from the public, challenges with fellow council members, and the challenges of eating during council meetings.

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Q: I came across something disturbing in your background that frankly your constituents ought to know about. You posted this on your Facebook page:

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Tell me about the kinds of things you eat in the city council meetings.

A: I switched to smoothies mostly in the meetings. We will share kale chips or salted seaweed sometimes. Nuts, granola…things you can eat pretty quickly and not make too much of a mess.

Q: I noticed that your council meetings can go pretty long. Recently, the council president added a rule limiting statements by council members to two minutes–

A: Well, the rule has always existed. Unfortunately, it is difficult to enforce it amongst the council members, as we are all prone to talking quite a bit. The reminders come when it’s kind of getting out of control. Meetings, honestly, have been longer than five or six hours sometimes.

Q: If I were going on for too long, how would you politely tell me to shut up?

A: Depending on the content–if you’re talking about something that’s not related to the agenda item, you could say “point of order.” You could “call the question” on a vote to end debate. You could also accuse someone of being out of order. I’ve definitely had people call “out of order” on me, whether justified or not!

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Detroit, MI Council Member Raquel Castaneda-Lopez

Q: Not only do you have your regular meetings downtown, you guys hold meetings around the city at night. They can start off at times like pep rallies, but then they usually turn into extended pleas for help. Do you get anxious before the meetings because you know what’s coming?

A: No. I think there is some mental preparation but it’s our job. You have to be compassionate. The frustrations and suffering that we heard in the comments is very valid. Having been born and raised here, I understand not having very good city services at times and feeling afraid and forgotten. I think the frustrating piece is that sometimes as a council, we don’t have the power that people think we do have. It really lies with the mayor’s office. So trying to explain that to people without them feeling brushed off [is hard].

Q: Well, I get all of my news from the president’s Twitter account, so I know things in Detroit are going “so badly.” What are the three issues that come up most often in your council meetings?

A: I think it’s city services in the neighborhoods. Really. It’s about people having basic quality of life needs met. Safety is always a major concern.

Q: One more thing about public comment: it’s common for council members to respond to people right after they talk to you. Do you know other councils don’t do it that way?

A: There’s pros and cons. It’s weird to come and talk in a meeting and there’s just no response at all. It’s nice to answer the person right then and there if you can.

Follow Council Raquel Castañeda-López on Twitter: @Raquel4Detroit

Interview #40: Gaithersburg, MD Council Member Ryan Spiegel (with podcast)

This podcast interview is available on iTunes, Stitcher, Player FM, and right here:

In addition to being a part-time chicken daddy, Ryan Spiegel was ensnared in the infamous “city council walkout” of 2016. How did he respond? Take a listen!

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Q: Something special happened to you guys: you got a new council member recently. There was a vacancy late last year and you, the council, got to appoint someone. How much of your decision was whether you could get along with that person at a council meeting?

A: That’s a big piece of it. There are, I’m sure, many councils you’ve covered that have been a bit more adversarial. Pretty much all of the candidates who applied for that opening are people who we could get along with.

Q: Yeah, you actually did that prior to this with Council Member Neil Harris. So you’ve got two people on the council who you personally had a say in appointing–

A: That’s right. And I won’t let them forget it!

Q: [Laughs] Let’s get into the tough issues: roosters. You were on the city council in 2010 when Gaithersburg banned roosters. Tell me what those meetings were like and please do use fowl language.

A: Well, look, I’m not going to squawk about something–

Q: Nice, nice.

A: And you can claw my eyes out–

Q: Boom!

A: One of the feathers in my cap has been my ability to listen to the public. Of all the controversial things we’ve dealt with, the ONE public hearing that had by FAR the largest attendance was about our chicken ordinance. Roosters can be loud, so we thought it was reasonable to ban roosters but to allow hens.

Q: Mmhmm.

A: We had cub scouts showing up with pictures of their little pet hen saying, “make sure our hens have a safe place in Gaithersburg!” When I was voting back in 2010, I had no idea that I would be one of the people who would have chickens in his own backyard. A few years ago, my wife found a company called Rent a Coop and surprised me by renting a little portable coop and two hens for the summer!

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Gaithersburg, MD Council Member Ryan Spiegel

Q: December 19, 2016. The city council was deciding whether to annex a parcel of land for development. It’s pretty mundane. But there was one vacant council seat and you were out sick, leaving three voting members. Council Member Robert Wu wanted to wait until a new council member was sworn in to vote. Your thoughts?

A: [The annexation] wasn’t exactly the most controversial thing in the world. It had been vetted, there had been public hearings….the charter allows us to have a vote of 2-1.

Q: Wu dropped this bombshell: he walked out of the meeting, taking away the quorum. You were watching at home–did you think you were delirious?

A: I was surprised that he got up and left. I think he believed he was doing something right. He was making some grand gesture. But I strongly disagree with the tactics.

Q: You texted the mayor, “I’m on my way.” You drove down, not so you could vote (due to a conflict of interest), but to have the quorum so the other two council members could vote. Did you want to be the hero?

A: No! There wasn’t a lot of strategizing here. It’s important for us to be doing the business of the city.

Follow Council Member Ryan Spiegel on Twitter: @RySpiegel

Interview #39: Montreal, QC Councilor Mary Deros (with podcast)

This podcast interview is available on iTunes, Stitcher, Player FM and right here:

Montreal city council meetings run a liitttttttle bit differently than anything else we at the Chronicles have seen. So naturally, I wanted to get an explanation from longtime councilor and deputy mayor Mary Deros. We dove deep into public commenters, language differences–and even shared a musical interlude!

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Q: Councilor, unfortunately my translator canceled at the last minute, so I’ll have to use a French-English dictionary. Bear with me…ahem. Merci madame de parler…avec moi…sur le podcast—

A: Michael, I speak English.

Q: Oh! Thank god. Well, your council meetings are conducted primarily in French. Is there a stigma against speaking English at the meetings?

A: No, they can address us in English or in French and the members can respond in either English or French.

Q: You have 65 councilors, which is the largest city council I’ve seen so far. And you also have political parties! Talk about how those two things affect how the meetings are run.

A: There’s the administration, which is a party of the mayor. Then you have the first opposition, then the second opposition. The standing committee members–made up of all parties–all sit together. We debate, we come to a consensus, and recommendations are prepared which are deposited at the following council meeting.

Q: One observation about your city council is that you do have your share of lawyers, business owners, and civic activists. But you have one councilor who is a singer, one who is a pianist, and your council president, Frantz Benjamin, is a poet. Is it easier for creative people to get elected in Montreal?

A: Frantz Benjamin is not just a poet–that is one of his many talents. You know, I like to sing as well. I’m not a professional singer, but that’s a hobby of mine.

Q: Will you sing with me?

A: Of course!

[Editor’s note: We then sang “O Canada.”]

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Montreal, QC Councilor Mary Deros

Q: A big part of your city council meeting is “questions from citizens.” A person comes up, they can ask a question of any councilor, then the councilor responds. Where does this concept come from in Montreal?

A: It’s to be more democratic. Officially, a citizen can ask a question on whatever irks them, whatever they need answers to–or they’re frustrated.

Q: Some councilors field a lot more questions than others. Do you know beforehand if you’re getting a question?

A: Not necessarily. We receive the questions and the list of citizens just as we enter the council room. Most of the questions are asked to the mayor and the mayor has the right to redirect the questions to the members who hold the file [are in charge of the issue].

Q: I’ve gotta tell you, watching questions from the public is infuriating to me because it seems like so many people would rather make a point than ask a question. And they get belligerent when called out on it.

A: There are some citizens who are there several times and it’s always the same question. When they have the microphone, some citizens take advantage. If each citizen took more time than allotted, then they’re taking time away from others who are waiting in line. If it’s a first-time comer who’s not sure how to go about it, [Council President Frantz Benjamin] will help them along.

Follow Councilor Mary Deros on Twitter: @maryderos

Interview #38: Edmonton, AB Councilor Bev Esslinger (with podcast)

This podcast interview is available on iTunes, Stitcher, Player FM and right here:

It’s our first dip into the waters of Alberta and boy, what a fun time it was! I talked to Bev Esslinger, a councilor in Edmonton. We addressed accusations that the Edmonton council meetings are a “man cave,” and also discussed the seemingly-unrelated subjects of prayer and city hall security.

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Q: Something caught my eye on the CBC. This is a story from January:

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Do you agree with this characterization of your city council meetings as an “upscale man cave?”

A: I wouldn’t call it a man cave. The last time, we didn’t have that many women running for council. We’ve been really working on that in Edmonton to improve that. We’ve changed some of our policies to be more family friendly–it’s good for everyone if meetings end at 5:30 rather than going into the evening after a full day of debate. No one’s at their best when the meeting goes past that time.

Q: Something that was big at your city council was the 2015 Supreme Court decision saying that prayer at government meetings was not allowed. You didn’t seem to like this, but looking back at almost two and a half years without prayer, is it still a disappointment?

A: Absolutely. We used to start our meeting with a prayer from a different interfaith group each time. It was always a very nice part of the day. I thought it reflected the diversity we have.

Q: City council meetings are a business meeting, ceremony, and public forum rolled into one. Did it help you do your job to have someone give a prayer right before you heard about things like zoning?

A: It was a moment of pause to reflect on our community’s diversity. It was a moment where people got to wish us their best. Hey, we can all use more prayer!

Q: I’ll give that an amen. But one of the suggestions to replace the prayer was to have a “moment of reflection” when citizens would say what it meant to them to be an Edmontonian through a poem or a song. You were against it. Why?

A: It went from a prayer to something that could be very broad.  I didn’t think it was the same thing at all.

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Edmonton, AB Councilor Bev Esslinger

Q: Perhaps you haven’t heard a poem about Edmonton that truly blew your socks off. May I read my poem?

A: Why not!

Q: Okay:

Saskatchewan River–
Cold waters as sharp
As Gretzky’s skates.
Light rail
Now going to Century Park.
What’s that?
That’s the Royal Alberta Museum.
History!…Mmm so thirsty;
Better go to the waterpark
At the West Edmonton Mall.
Splash
Into Alberta!

When I visit Edmonton, can I read that at a council meeting?

A: No.

Q: …Okay, let’s change the subject. On September 22, 2015, a group of cab drivers protested during a meeting when you were deciding whether to allow Uber in Edmonton. Have you ever been concerned about your safety at a council meeting?

A: Not really. It’s disruptive–you can’t conduct a meeting. We don’t try to get into it with people. In this case, this large a group of people reacting…you can’t continue your meeting.

Q: You decided to beef up your security with metal detectors and a glass wall. Wouldn’t it be cheaper if the councilors carried guns?

A: That would not be Canadian.

Follow Councilor Bev Esslinger on Twitter: @bevesslinger

Interview #37: San José, CA Councilmember Lan Diep (with podcast)

This podcast interview is available on iTunes, Stitcher, Player FM and right here:

(And if you want to skip ahead to the fun radio play we did, here it is:)

You may recognize Lan Diep from his city council swearing-in ceremony during which he held a replica Captain America shield:

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It was an inspiring moment. But let’s keep our eyes on the prize: he’s a freshman council member in San José (yes, it’s spelled with the accent mark) who is new to the city council meeting game. That’s why I asked him about his “jitters,” his boisterous first meeting, and who his amigas are on the council.

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Q: Before your first meeting, you tweeted this:

What were you jittery about?

A: You campaign for this thing and until you actually get up there, it’s this abstract idea. You can’t anticipate what the job will be like until you’re actually there. There has been a bit of an awakening–not good or bad. Just different.

Q: Is there some glaring disconnect between us watching you on the city council meetings and what you experience?

A: What I didn’t anticipate is that this would be a lifestyle. You can go to an event and see your mayor or your council member get on stage, say some nice words, and shake people’s hands, then leave. And you think, “wouldn’t it be great to have my name called out to be on that stage!” What you don’t realize is you’re still at that event, but the council member probably has three or four or five more events that day. The physical toll of that was a surprise to me.

Q: Your first council meeting was a doozy. You had a full house of mostly Vietnamese and Vietnamese Americans and the topic was whether San José would fly the flag of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam (communist Vietnam) or the Vietnamese Heritage and Freedom Flag. A hundred people came up and talked emotionally about what the communist flag meant to them. Did it surprise you to have that be so controversial?

A: Um, no. San José is home to the most Vietnamese people in any one city outside of Vietnam. Whenever they can, they do things like get their city government to oppose flying the Red Flag as a way to say to the government in Vietnam, “we reject your rule.”

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Q: Is there someone on the city council you consider a best friend?

A: I have two people I feel close to. One is Council Member Dev Davis, who I jokingly call my “work wife.” [We] go around to events together. The other person I’m close to is Council Member Sylvia Arenas, who I’ve jokingly called my “best friend at work.” We made a video together reviewing the crab sandwich at McDonald’s that’s being offered for a limited time in San José!

Q: Lan, can you tell the listeners what you put in front of you on the dais during the council meetings?

A: [Laughs] I have a little Captain America Funko POP! figurine that I put in front of my computer monitor so when I’m speaking, he’s hanging out with me. I’m owning the Captain America thing that I unintentionally thrust upon myself. It was a surprise to me that a lot of people tweeted at me saying that I was cool or wished I was their council member. Some people called me an embarrassment. But what was really touching and unexpected were the people who said I presented to them some symbol of hope–I reminded them to look past party lines.

Follow Councilmember Lan Diep on Twitter at: @LTDiep